diaryofarider: (canter2012)
[personal profile] diaryofarider
So got into an argument with a friend on facebook the other day. She was furious about an article written by a woman who is annoyed by people who refer to their dog as their "baby" or "fur kid". I agreed with the POV of the woman in the article, which of course did not go over well (ever wonder why there is no "dislike" button on facebook? Because people only want you to agree, or to STFU).
Anyway, I explained my point of view, her other friends explained their point of view, and I was surprised, disturbed, and very curious. I was pretty sure there were a few people who were kind of out there- there always are- but, like when George Bush Jr. got elected (especially the second time?!!) I wondered what might actually be going on in the world. I wanted to try and find some facts, or at least widen my scope and broaden my experience.
So what I found is that this trend toward treating dogs like children, is indeed much more widespread than I thought, and it seems to be pretty recent- as in the generation just after mine seems to be where the growth really takes off.
What seems pretty consistent, is this-
This seems to be most common among women without children (yes, not surprising)
These women tend to say they love their dog(s) as much as a mother loves her child (even though they do not have children- my friend felt this argument was irrelevant, I felt it was extremely relevant) and get very angry if someone says a mother does/should love her children more.
They tend to talk about how dogs are better than people (dogs love unconditionally, don't talk back, etc)
They talk about how much they hate people with children wanting them to have children, and talk about overpopulation . I think most of the mothers annoyed by the "my dog is my child/fur kid" thing, don't actually want to see these women reproduce, they just want them to stop saying their dog owner/dog relationship is just like a mother/child when they have never mothered a child.
A certain population of these people immediately gets furious and nasty about human offspring.
They always mention people who can't have children, and women who are bad mothers.
They are very irritated by "quantifying love" even though they will usually say things like "I love my dog as much as/more than".
It tends to be more dog owners, not cat owners. They may have a cat also, but they almost always have a dog.

So anyway, from my internet guesstimations, about 1 in 3 childless women ages 30 or so and younger seem to be of the pro-furkid persuasion. I found that shockingly high.
What I think bothers me is that what was once commonly accepted, "your family is more important than your pets" seems to be less common, and I think that some valuable relationships between people can be lost because it is easier to have a dog. I don't think all human relationships are good, nor do I think we should forgo relationships with our pets. Just taking a general approach of "Relationships with dogs are better than relationships with people" or straight on "Dogs are better than people" is a bad thing in my opinion- sometimes for the individual- definitely for humanity in general. We need some compassion and empathy for one another. Don't write off our entire species.

There does seem to be a little selfish guilt "dog moms" actually key in on "my dog loves me unconditionally/I have more freedom/it costs less than kids", and then counter via the "overpopulation/bad mother" arguments. But it's not really logical. Because, again, I don't want everyone to have kids, and I hope a lot of people don't have kids- but if every couple in the world only had 1 kid- we would have a declining population. Perhaps there is a perception of an expectation that they should have kids, and "dog moms" feel the need to prove they are "just as good" as a person who has actual kids, in fact, they are better. But I don't think parents are actually trying to be superior individuals, they just feel the relationship is deeper and more precious. Sort of the difference between "you are a bad kid" vs "you did a bad thing". But I'm clearly biased, so this could just be from me being in the "enemy camp".

Some things I think I get- They don't want people to think less of them for not having children. I don't. They don't want people to think they are incapable of love. I know that. They might actually be trying to relate to parents. OK- this one is harder. I just...don't like...furkid, and I would prefer "I love my dog." and let's just try to relate as animal lovers, or even just as people who love stuff (people, dogs, chocolate, books, whatever).

Anyway, it was an interesting thing to think about. I would love to see someone do a large, widespread study/survey asking women with children and dogs whether they value their children more than their dogs (I think this would come back at about 90% yes, they love their human children more) but I haven't seen an official poll anywhere. I do find it interesting to see the way people bond with animals, and am curious what the future holds- I hope it is good things- that this is actually a solution to a problem for the human race, without being too problematic for the human race itself.

Some links I came across:

http://nypost.com/2014/04/10/more-young-women-choosing-dogs-over-motherhood/

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a34151140/parents_who_love_their_pets_more_than_their_children

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/people-care-pets-humans/

Date: 2015-06-16 07:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] re-vised.livejournal.com
I think I am one of those who chose dogs over motherhood. Not because it's "easier" to have a dog, I just... don't want kids. (And if Isaac and I decide we do, we will adopt.) I love my dogs, and horse and cat, very much and will do all I could to protect them and provide the best care. Does that mean I love them like a mother loves her children? I don't know. I'm not a mother, so I cannot compare. Though I do know there was a study (I think you reference it - my phone won't open your links. :( ) that showed woman monitored with fMRI's show the same levels of brain activities in the same places when shown photos of their children and dogs.

Anyway, I do think every few couples only having 1 kid would be a good thing, our worldwide population is huge and growing; the planet isn't going to be able to sustain our needs at the rate we're going. So in the respect, fewer people (in my opinion) are good. I don't want laws against reproduction or a mass killing of anything, just saying the earth only has so many resources to give us.

Date: 2015-06-16 10:17 pm (UTC)
ext_112014: (Default)
From: [identity profile] skitty-kitty.livejournal.com
I hate the pets as kids mentality for a different reason: Dogs are not kids, they should not be treated like children, stop anthropomorphising your animals people! People never bother to learn and understand the species' behavior and instincts and you get screwed up animals that are all nuts in the head and/or spoiled rotten, and just mentally and physically unhappy.

Date: 2015-06-16 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] feather-armor.livejournal.com
I don't consider my dogs my kids, but I DO consider them family.

Obviously being in the dog blogging community I've seen this article and seen it debated ad nauseum.

I have more to say about it, but not on my phone.

Date: 2015-06-17 04:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spirithorse21.livejournal.com
I think the hard thing is, you can't really understand or quantify the difference unless you have children. I don't mean to lessen the point made by advocates of the furbaby camp, I think they are quantifying their feelings in a real way. You just...can't *really* know that mother/child bond until you have one.

For the record I don't think of my dog as my child, it makes me squeamish to think of her that way, and this was especially true before I had my child. Same for my horses. They are, as featherarmor says though, family. I know in a heart beat that I love my child more than any of my animals, but i also know I'd do an awful lot for my animals too. Also, i was not always sure that I'd have a child or want one. I came to the decision slowly, so I'm not just biased here. God, that sounds a little arrogant, but i can't think of a better way to say what i mean...

Date: 2015-06-17 08:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slobberpuppy.livejournal.com
I've never given it any thought, to be honest, and even now I don't care one way or the other. I do find it amusing that children are referred to as "kids" which is actually the term for a baby goat, tho. I mean, one could choose to be offended over equating human children to immature goats, if one wished.

Meh. Have kids, don't have kids, have dogs, don't have dogs, call them fur kids or don't... Doesn't matter either way to me. I personally don't want kids, but I don't use the term "fur kids" either. I do love dogs, tho. Our family has always loved dogs and treated them as family members. I remember my folks saying that our dogs were our little brothers. I like that, they ARE our family members, whether they are human or not... Just as we have chosen family who are not blood relatives... It's all about the bond and the connection. And I did call Pogo my "dogter" (a humerous riff on the word "daughter") and told my folks she was thier "granddogter" and we all laughed and enjoyed having her as such.

Let other people do what they want - I'll do it my way to be happy, and you do it your way, and really - who cares if those two things ever meet up or not? We are all free to love whom we choose. (Well, ideally, at least.)

Guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a non-issue from where I stand. ((shrugs))
Edited Date: 2015-06-17 08:51 am (UTC)

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