On man's best friend... and offspring
Jun. 16th, 2015 11:26 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
diaryofariderSo got into an argument with a friend on facebook the other day. She was furious about an article written by a woman who is annoyed by people who refer to their dog as their "baby" or "fur kid". I agreed with the POV of the woman in the article, which of course did not go over well (ever wonder why there is no "dislike" button on facebook? Because people only want you to agree, or to STFU).
Anyway, I explained my point of view, her other friends explained their point of view, and I was surprised, disturbed, and very curious. I was pretty sure there were a few people who were kind of out there- there always are- but, like when George Bush Jr. got elected (especially the second time?!!) I wondered what might actually be going on in the world. I wanted to try and find some facts, or at least widen my scope and broaden my experience.
So what I found is that this trend toward treating dogs like children, is indeed much more widespread than I thought, and it seems to be pretty recent- as in the generation just after mine seems to be where the growth really takes off.
What seems pretty consistent, is this-
This seems to be most common among women without children (yes, not surprising)
These women tend to say they love their dog(s) as much as a mother loves her child (even though they do not have children- my friend felt this argument was irrelevant, I felt it was extremely relevant) and get very angry if someone says a mother does/should love her children more.
They tend to talk about how dogs are better than people (dogs love unconditionally, don't talk back, etc)
They talk about how much they hate people with children wanting them to have children, and talk about overpopulation . I think most of the mothers annoyed by the "my dog is my child/fur kid" thing, don't actually want to see these women reproduce, they just want them to stop saying their dog owner/dog relationship is just like a mother/child when they have never mothered a child.
A certain population of these people immediately gets furious and nasty about human offspring.
They always mention people who can't have children, and women who are bad mothers.
They are very irritated by "quantifying love" even though they will usually say things like "I love my dog as much as/more than".
It tends to be more dog owners, not cat owners. They may have a cat also, but they almost always have a dog.
So anyway, from my internet guesstimations, about 1 in 3 childless women ages 30 or so and younger seem to be of the pro-furkid persuasion. I found that shockingly high.
What I think bothers me is that what was once commonly accepted, "your family is more important than your pets" seems to be less common, and I think that some valuable relationships between people can be lost because it is easier to have a dog. I don't think all human relationships are good, nor do I think we should forgo relationships with our pets. Just taking a general approach of "Relationships with dogs are better than relationships with people" or straight on "Dogs are better than people" is a bad thing in my opinion- sometimes for the individual- definitely for humanity in general. We need some compassion and empathy for one another. Don't write off our entire species.
There does seem to be a little selfish guilt "dog moms" actually key in on "my dog loves me unconditionally/I have more freedom/it costs less than kids", and then counter via the "overpopulation/bad mother" arguments. But it's not really logical. Because, again, I don't want everyone to have kids, and I hope a lot of people don't have kids- but if every couple in the world only had 1 kid- we would have a declining population. Perhaps there is a perception of an expectation that they should have kids, and "dog moms" feel the need to prove they are "just as good" as a person who has actual kids, in fact, they are better. But I don't think parents are actually trying to be superior individuals, they just feel the relationship is deeper and more precious. Sort of the difference between "you are a bad kid" vs "you did a bad thing". But I'm clearly biased, so this could just be from me being in the "enemy camp".
Some things I think I get- They don't want people to think less of them for not having children. I don't. They don't want people to think they are incapable of love. I know that. They might actually be trying to relate to parents. OK- this one is harder. I just...don't like...furkid, and I would prefer "I love my dog." and let's just try to relate as animal lovers, or even just as people who love stuff (people, dogs, chocolate, books, whatever).
Anyway, it was an interesting thing to think about. I would love to see someone do a large, widespread study/survey asking women with children and dogs whether they value their children more than their dogs (I think this would come back at about 90% yes, they love their human children more) but I haven't seen an official poll anywhere. I do find it interesting to see the way people bond with animals, and am curious what the future holds- I hope it is good things- that this is actually a solution to a problem for the human race, without being too problematic for the human race itself.
Some links I came across:
http://nypost.com/2014/04/10/more-young-women-choosing-dogs-over-motherhood/
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a34151140/parents_who_love_their_pets_more_than_their_children
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/people-care-pets-humans/
Anyway, I explained my point of view, her other friends explained their point of view, and I was surprised, disturbed, and very curious. I was pretty sure there were a few people who were kind of out there- there always are- but, like when George Bush Jr. got elected (especially the second time?!!) I wondered what might actually be going on in the world. I wanted to try and find some facts, or at least widen my scope and broaden my experience.
So what I found is that this trend toward treating dogs like children, is indeed much more widespread than I thought, and it seems to be pretty recent- as in the generation just after mine seems to be where the growth really takes off.
What seems pretty consistent, is this-
This seems to be most common among women without children (yes, not surprising)
These women tend to say they love their dog(s) as much as a mother loves her child (even though they do not have children- my friend felt this argument was irrelevant, I felt it was extremely relevant) and get very angry if someone says a mother does/should love her children more.
They tend to talk about how dogs are better than people (dogs love unconditionally, don't talk back, etc)
They talk about how much they hate people with children wanting them to have children, and talk about overpopulation . I think most of the mothers annoyed by the "my dog is my child/fur kid" thing, don't actually want to see these women reproduce, they just want them to stop saying their dog owner/dog relationship is just like a mother/child when they have never mothered a child.
A certain population of these people immediately gets furious and nasty about human offspring.
They always mention people who can't have children, and women who are bad mothers.
They are very irritated by "quantifying love" even though they will usually say things like "I love my dog as much as/more than".
It tends to be more dog owners, not cat owners. They may have a cat also, but they almost always have a dog.
So anyway, from my internet guesstimations, about 1 in 3 childless women ages 30 or so and younger seem to be of the pro-furkid persuasion. I found that shockingly high.
What I think bothers me is that what was once commonly accepted, "your family is more important than your pets" seems to be less common, and I think that some valuable relationships between people can be lost because it is easier to have a dog. I don't think all human relationships are good, nor do I think we should forgo relationships with our pets. Just taking a general approach of "Relationships with dogs are better than relationships with people" or straight on "Dogs are better than people" is a bad thing in my opinion- sometimes for the individual- definitely for humanity in general. We need some compassion and empathy for one another. Don't write off our entire species.
There does seem to be a little selfish guilt "dog moms" actually key in on "my dog loves me unconditionally/I have more freedom/it costs less than kids", and then counter via the "overpopulation/bad mother" arguments. But it's not really logical. Because, again, I don't want everyone to have kids, and I hope a lot of people don't have kids- but if every couple in the world only had 1 kid- we would have a declining population. Perhaps there is a perception of an expectation that they should have kids, and "dog moms" feel the need to prove they are "just as good" as a person who has actual kids, in fact, they are better. But I don't think parents are actually trying to be superior individuals, they just feel the relationship is deeper and more precious. Sort of the difference between "you are a bad kid" vs "you did a bad thing". But I'm clearly biased, so this could just be from me being in the "enemy camp".
Some things I think I get- They don't want people to think less of them for not having children. I don't. They don't want people to think they are incapable of love. I know that. They might actually be trying to relate to parents. OK- this one is harder. I just...don't like...furkid, and I would prefer "I love my dog." and let's just try to relate as animal lovers, or even just as people who love stuff (people, dogs, chocolate, books, whatever).
Anyway, it was an interesting thing to think about. I would love to see someone do a large, widespread study/survey asking women with children and dogs whether they value their children more than their dogs (I think this would come back at about 90% yes, they love their human children more) but I haven't seen an official poll anywhere. I do find it interesting to see the way people bond with animals, and am curious what the future holds- I hope it is good things- that this is actually a solution to a problem for the human race, without being too problematic for the human race itself.
Some links I came across:
http://nypost.com/2014/04/10/more-young-women-choosing-dogs-over-motherhood/
http://community.babycenter.com/post/a34151140/parents_who_love_their_pets_more_than_their_children
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/people-care-pets-humans/
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no subject
Date: 2015-06-16 11:12 pm (UTC)Obviously being in the dog blogging community I've seen this article and seen it debated ad nauseum.
I have more to say about it, but not on my phone.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-17 01:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-06-17 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-06-17 02:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-06-18 03:14 pm (UTC)http://myrubicondays.blogspot.com/2015/06/i-don-call-myself-dog-mom-but-i-don.html
Interestingly, after I wrote the first draft of that yesterday morning, I was at the annual meeting for our organization and the guest speaker (who was a brilliant Canadian woman) talked about the changing workplace, shortage of middle management and skilled workers, and the declining population of the educated (because education predicts birth rate, conversely). I felt the tiniest bit guilty for a minute that Ruby and Boca weren't going to become contributing members of society, but just for a minute :) I'm honestly not too worried about population decline on a global level considering the strain on natural resources, climate change, etc. I'm also reading a book about living alone, historical and sociological implications - really fascinating! Funny how all these things converge.
My status of child-free by choice was not arrived at easily. I think I would have been a great mom - I had the very best example in my own. When I was with my ex-husband, I actually thought I wanted to have a child, but only if it didn't have to be raised in daycare, which didn't seem like an option. E. made it abundantly clear that he was not going to have any more, so I had to do a lot of serious soul-searching in order to be certain I /didn't/ want kids and instead wanted to be with him. Now we've split up and I'm approaching 40 - if it WAS a priority or something I badly wanted, I would have to get on it, like, yesterday. I was really interested in adoption for a while, but at the time it was not financially feasible. I don't regret that decision, as I think it was the right one for me. Losing my mom took away any last shred of desire as I wouldn't want to have a child without her here.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-19 07:39 pm (UTC)"I loved my dogs, and then I had kids"?
I think the picture in the article looks angry, but other than that I don't know why people say she is angry. She sounds annoyed to me, and like she is trying to be funny with exaggeration.
I don't have any issue with people choosing not to have kids. I would prefer that having dogs not be tied to not having kids. I don't think having dogs and having kids is the same.
I'm not angry. :)
no subject
Date: 2015-06-19 08:19 pm (UTC)All in the past tense...I had a supervisor at my last job who told me after I extolled my affection for my dogs "just wait until you have kids...I loved my dogs too, now they live outside." I'm pretty sure that's what happened to my Norwegian elkhound Freya, too, who was dumped at DDFL at five years old when they no longer "had time" for her.
Insult implies anger. The tone of the editorial is condescending and bitter. Her description of parenting her kids doesn't make it sound all that appealing, to be honest. I think it was written to get attention, and it certainly succeeded at that.
I agree with you that it's not the same, but nor is every human child parented the same. Some people take less responsibility for their kids than many do for their pets. Giving birth doesn't make one an automatic candidate for sainthood.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-19 08:53 pm (UTC)She is taking something that brings others joy and which does not affect her - doting on and loving their pets - and criticizing it.
On a much smaller scale, and I'm sure I've been guilty of this, too, but if someone posts something like "I loved movie xyz!" and doesn't ask for opinions, and someone just has to jump in and go "I hated it."
I guess it's a pet peeve of mine, no pun intended. What this discussion has done is stretch my compassion muscles (I hope) and made an effort in my own blog post to focus on the positive.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-22 02:59 pm (UTC)